Rosie Ruiz - Boston Marathon Cheater (1980)

That's A Crime
Episode 41: Rosie Ruiz - Boston Marathon Cheater (1980)

Jason Connell and Sal Rodriguez break down the true crime story of Rosie Ruiz - Boston Marathon Cheater in 1980. On April 21, 1980, Rosie Ruiz won the Boston Marathon’s female division with a record time of 2:31:56. Ruiz would hold the crown for 8 days until a mountain of evidence proved she had jumped onto the course in the final few miles of the race. Ruiz never admitted to cheating but did receive public notoriety and long-lasting name recognition. “Doing a Rosie” is still runners’ slang for cheating by cutting the course.

Original Episode: S01E41

Recorded: 07-15-22
Studio: Just Curious Media
https://www.JustCuriousMedia.com/

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https://www.instagram.com/SalvadorLosAngeles/

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Transcript

Jason Connell: 4:12:47

Whoa, just curious. Welcome to Just curious media. This is that's a crime. I'm Jason Connell.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:12:55

And I'm Sal Rodriguez.

Jason Connell: 4:12:57

Alright, south, we are back for another crime.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:13:01

I would put this in the lighter category. Definitely no fatalities here.

Jason Connell: 4:13:06

No fatalities here. Because today we are breaking down the True Crime Story of Rosie rulez. Boston Marathon cheater in 1980. You're laughing already?

Sal Rodriguez: 4:13:19

Yeah, because I mean, the thought of this happening today, I will share with you some of the reasons why you probably will. This couldn't happen today. So the fact that it happened makes it even more significant that it did happen.

Jason Connell: 4:13:29

It did happen. And I cannot wait to delve into this one sound. But first, a word from our sponsor. Absolutely. Support for that to crime is brought to you by manscaped. Who is the best and men's below the waist grooming and offers precision engineer tools for your family jewels. Join over 4 million men worldwide who trust manscaped and with this exclusive offer, you'll get

Sal Rodriguez: 4:13:54

20% off and free worldwide shipping with the code. That's a crime@manscaped.com All right,

Jason Connell: 4:14:00

great job. Okay, buddy. Here we go. Gonna talk about Rosie rulez. But before that sounds, I figured we give the Boston Marathon a little bit of its rich history. Sure.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:14:13

Yeah, that's good. Because I don't know about that. I don't know about Boston specifically.

Jason Connell: 4:14:17

And nor did I but we've heard about it for years. You know, that Boston Marathon. It was, you know, famous and then New York Marathon, but living here in the Boston area. Of course, it kind of put this on my radar. I was looking for a crime. I've been looking for a sports crime. But I mean, sports crime in the act of playing sports. Right? Well, you're playing the sport. Yeah, the sport you're doing the crime in that. But the history for the Boston Marathon. So it has a very rich history. And it originally was run on April 19, every year, which is known as Patriots Day around here around these here parts. Now this day honors the Battles of Lexington and Concord, which happened on April 19 1775, that sparked the American Revolutionary War. Now living this close to Lexington and Concord. I've gone to some of these establishments, historic buildings, Paul Revere came down this road, Warren, these people, this battle happen here. I've seen reenactments. I've done tours. It's big. It's rich in history around here. So the marathon was just kind of connected to that, if you will. On the day, if it's not on the day, it was around the day, the same week of so very cool. And beyond that, let's skip forward in time. There was the horrific bombing, and 2013 at the Boston Marathon on April 15. I had a very good friend Ron in that race had already gone home, then the explosion happened. He's a doctor now. He was going to Harvard Med School, ran back down there and just said the whole thing was just horrific, shook him to his core. And that wasn't that long ago. I know you remember that

Sal Rodriguez: 4:15:52

happening? Well, you even ran the marathon, went home and then came back to help.

Jason Connell: 4:15:57

Yeah, cuz he wasn't that far away. And it was just like, something like that happens. You're gonna go get a closer look. He's a doctor and training. He didn't get involved too much. But still, I was like, Oh my gosh, I know that he's there. And as long before I lived here, and then they even made a movie starring Mark Wahlberg, which is pretty good, called Patriots Day about that particular event. And the kid, they found him in a boat, and he had the backpack and they kind of put it together with all the cameras around. So back to this crime, we're gonna get to that. The cameras spotting everybody's movement. And so on 2020 The marathon, the Boston Marathon was cancelled, like everything else due to COVID. And so in 2021, which we moved here, right around my birthday, late July 31 2021. They pushed the marathon to October 11 2021. Because COVID And then April, it wasn't ready. So they did that. But since living here, they already had the 2022 marathon, the 126 Daniel marathon, and they moved it back to April. It was like this past April 18. So they did two very fast to get back on the cycle. I didn't go so I didn't come near Boston downtown that day, because it would have been crazy. I'm not a marathon runner. But still I just love that history. And then I was looking for sports crimes. And then this one popped back up, because I always remember it vividly. The footage, the ruse, how does someone get away with that? And I learned some things. And here we are today. Breaking it down.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:17:24

Yeah. And one of the things that's significant about the Boston Marathon is like, let's say as compared to the LA Marathon, or if you have in New York Marathon, is that you have to qualify for Boston. You can't just go sign up for Boston and go to Boston. You got to qualify. I couldn't go running Boston unless the way they do it is you have to qualify based on your age. You have to meet a certain speed. Yep, a guy my age. I could probably run maybe a 330 marathon Today, I mean, like, if I could, and then that might qualify me. I might put you on. Yeah. So I have to run a marathon at 330. Roughly. And then that qualifies me for Boston.

Jason Connell: 4:17:56

Well, if you qualify, so you can stay here, or go to the marathon that day. If you're in it, but yeah, there you go. There's your incentive.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:18:05

If I ran Boston today, I would have to cheat indeed.

Jason Connell: 4:18:08

Well, they have to do it in April to because of the climate, you can't do it. And the data winter around here in the summer is going to be hot. So they kind of put you in those off peak times. Like when they did do it. And not April, they did an October, which is nice. It's still mild. It's cool. You can handle that. I can't imagine the one in LA what do they do that one in Los Angeles?

Sal Rodriguez: 4:18:28

Well, I don't know today, but it usually was in the spring. It usually was around March. It's got to be okay. That makes sense. Yeah. I don't think generally marathons or any distance events are in the summertime. I think they're usually in the fall or the spring, I think. Yeah. Agreed.

Jason Connell: 4:18:42

So now back to the crime at hand. On April 21 1980, Rosie ruedas, won the Boston marathons female division with the time of and you'll be able to relate to this. So two hours, 31 minutes and 56 seconds. And sound to be clear, a marathon is 26.2 miles. So that is a 5.47 pace per mile. Now, I know you've run marathons or half marathon, so I'm curious. Is that close to your pace?

Sal Rodriguez: 4:19:14

I wasn't that fast. No, I ran in my day. In fact, I have my resume. Oh, here we go. Yeah, I'm looking at the dates here. I ran to I'm sorry, I ran for half marathons. For marathon. Okay, yeah. I ran San Diego rock'n'roll marathon twice LA Marathon twice. I ran Huntington Beach half marathon twice. And the Long Beach half marathon twice. So it was four and four for each event. What did you prefer? I tell everybody who listened half marathons are fun because as soon as it gets hard, as soon as it gets grueling, you're done. It's over. Yeah, you're done. You're done as soon as it gets rolling marathon I mean, geez, the mental games you have to play with yourself. I never had any physical challenges running the marathons but mentally holy cow. I was going nuts in my head always finished my head straight. I always finish never had any problems. And my fastest time to anybody who cares was the San Diego rock'n'roll marathon 2003, three hours, 40 minutes, 17 seconds at eight minutes and 24 seconds per mile pace, which is my fastest marathon pace. I might have done some halfs and 10 K's faster. But my fastest marathon pace was 824. And since we're talking, we are talking I happen to have oh

Jason Connell: 4:20:21

my gosh, look at that. Describe that for the listener. So

Sal Rodriguez: 4:20:24

yeah, this is my San Diego Rock and Roll Marathon. What does it diploma, diploma chronometer time is on time. It's honor. Yeah. And the reason I brought this to our attention is because this is my fastest time that I'm most proud of 347 to eight minutes, 24 seconds per mile. My fastest time because I did le marathon about 350 I

Jason Connell: 4:20:43

think yeah, but to be clear for our listeners and not the viewers who can see that. I believe that was a gear mo Salvador.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:20:50

My full legal name here mo Salvador is

Jason Connell: 4:20:52

this the G just the G

Sal Rodriguez: 4:20:53

and you see that's right. Yeah, the GSEs that I used to use my initial first initial G themselves or I used to do that it was a thing. Hey,

Jason Connell: 4:20:59

Congrats, man. That's really an accomplishment. I knew you ran some and I was telling Sophia. It's like, well, Sal is gonna bring the running to the table. I mean, I've run in soccer and sports, but I did used to run the mile back in the day and ran a pretty good mile, like five minutes something mile, but it was one mile. It's that 26 of them waiting for you. So I knew you'd bring that but I didn't realize you did four and four. So I'm impressed.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:21:21

Thank you and I do aspire to maybe run another half one day. Okay. I don't know if I can run a full but I would like to do with how are you

Jason Connell: 4:21:28

could do a Rosie ruedas marathon. But wait, wait till we find out what she did. So that's a fast pace. And there's a reason because of that fast pace. And as for the infamous Rosie ruedas, she actually held the ground for eight glorious days until a mountain of evidence proved that she had jumped onto the course. And the final few miles of the race. Now Sal is a lifelong athlete and competitor. This really upsets me. I mean, and you as a runner who's trained for marathons half and full. what's your takeaway? What's your reaction to this fraud?

Sal Rodriguez: 4:22:09

Well, the first thing is for your average runner in a marathon like your average person that's kind of separate from the elite runners, the top runners

Jason Connell: 4:22:16

that people from Kenya, runners from exactly.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:22:20

Eastern Bloc women before I have now the exact African women are now coming up. They're reaching their stride so to speak. So now the top marathon runners are the Kenyan males and Kenyan females now today so it's an interesting time in in history. So in other words, what I'm saying is that when you go out there you just want to finish right with with a decent respectable time. And you know that the pros already crossed the finish line. They're already done, you know, just over two hours. Right now that some of the guys are coming close to the two hour mark. It's amazing. If you know the famous Roger Bannister, four minute miles. All right now we're kissing that in the world of marathons where we're approaching the two hour barrier. There was a guy in a fixed event that did run under two hours, but it was a totally fixed, it was only him running. He had like guides, they closed off the region. Yeah, and that was the only other thing. That's a whole nother thing. But as far as competitive marathoning they're kissing that two hour mark. So yeah, anybody who gets in a marathon just usually wants to finish do their best, and you know, have a good time. But these pros, these pros, they're on another level. But one thing I do want to say, though, to mention it now is that the last time I used to run marathons is they would have these little chips on your shoe. And there would be these little posts that you would have to pass along the way. So it tells you where you're at at the 10k mark the half marathon mark,

Jason Connell: 4:23:29

so you're good. And you also can't cheat the system. Exactly. Well, this is 1987. So does it offend you that someone comes rolling in and runs out last mile like a wild person? And then they're declared the winner?

Sal Rodriguez: 4:23:42

I think I'd see it more of as it's humorous to me. It's funny. Yeah. I mean, granted, if I were one of these top elite, I'm saying, Yeah, that's a different story. As an onlooker, I think it's kind of hilarious, and she is inevitably caught. But believe me for that leading woman. Oh, it must have been incredibly offensive and hurtful. Sure.

Jason Connell: 4:23:59

And when you see the old news clips, did you see the video which was just an interview that was in there helping her along the finish line? Yeah. If a non runner displays is that for even a mile a half mile, they're gassed, right. So she's coming in, like helped me and I'm beside myself. And then she's being interviewed, and I found that appalling. But I can look back now on something from 1980 and just say, as a world was a different time is a different place. You could pull this charade off. So as Rosie Rue is her ruse deprive the true woman's champion, Canadian, Jacqueline guru, have any recognition of her course record time of two hours, 34 minutes and 28 seconds, and her dominant defeat of the pre race favourite Patti, Leon's of Boston, mind you, who finished second with a time of two hours, 35 minutes and eight seconds. 42nd difference so she bested the favorite by 40 seconds, would have had her moment in the sun sow. But as we just talked about, rulez stole the limelight. She's the big winner and Guru spy like, Hey, that's my best time and not knowing who even one for over a week. I mean, yeah, that would be upsetting.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:25:15

Well, today anyway, when I say today, I mean, let's say the last 20 years, they already know who's going to win. Like they have like the favorites. Right? So the fact like back in 1980, that this person popped out. And when you see the news clip, they're like, Oh, she just came out of nowhere. We missed her every checkpoint. Yeah, exactly. There's no way that could happen today. I mean, they already know, okay, it's going to be one of these ladies who's going to win. It's going to be one of these men who's going to win. Yeah, it's not going to be many surprises. And their time is going to be right around here. Yeah, exactly. all planned out. And they already have a little something. Also for the Layperson. They have Pacers. So the top people have like people surrounding them pacing them, and then those people drop out. Yeah, the Pacers will drop out and just let those people cruise on. Yeah,

Jason Connell: 4:25:56

I've seen sometimes. And I've seen some of the Kenyan runners. And this is back in the day, I kind of watched a little bit of it. They kind of run in a group and they block people out they box blocks of strategy there. And then they're probably deciding who because they're probably all equal strength, but then they must say, if you're gonna win, you're gonna get second this time. It must be all rehearse. It's not cheating. It's just their system. And it works.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:26:16

Sure. So it's almost like pack versus pack like this pack will compete against this pack. And that pack will be their lead. And that pack will give their lead but it is sort of pack against pack. Yeah.

Jason Connell: 4:26:24

And maybe there is a stronger runner amongst them. And maybe that's how they decide. But yeah, it's fascinating. It's a whole subculture. But Rez here wanted to shortcut that altogether.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:26:34

Now, it doesn't say how she did it, because it says that she cheated earlier in a previous event. We're gonna get to tell us how but it doesn't say how she cheated in this event.

Jason Connell: 4:26:44

Right? Well, somewhat. But yeah, I watched a few videos and pieces of it together. But let's go back to the first one because we're never getting ahead of ourselves. Okay, so as this investigation for the Boston Marathon was underway, it was also learned that rulez began her course cutting career. I like that. And her first marathon which was in New York City in 1979. The year prior, so it was there. She either dropped out or skipped the course completely, as she was seen on the subway. Going to Central Park. Now so this is crazy and in a time without smartphones and cameras at every intersection very possible to pull off Case in point right here.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:27:25

Yeah, especially now that we're doing that's a crime. There's always that thought it's like it was it just seems so much easier to commit crime.

Jason Connell: 4:27:33

Totally. Once upon a time, the DB Cooper of cheating and marathons. Yeah,

Sal Rodriguez: 4:27:37

it's like you could do it that like yeah, you couldn't do that now. I'm guessing that she cheated in New York via subway. Like I said she was part of the subway. That story I did hear that's urban folklore. It's her splattered on the subway. I mixed up these two stories, though. And then the next year she does Chicago and we're assuming she probably did the same thing might have jumped. Not Chicago, Boston. Oh, sorry. Sorry, Boston, she might have taken a subway also, or maybe no subway just jumped in.

Jason Connell: 4:27:59

Yeah, I mean, well, what I do know. So just to let the listeners know, and the viewers, and that New York City Marathon, cuz you talked about eligibility earlier. So I wanted to cover that point. And then we'll go to Boston Rue has managed to cross the finish line by receiving medical attention. So she takes a subway jumps in somewhere, but I don't know, they weren't. There was no cameras on her the whole way. So that's why it said, Did she drop out? Did she never run it, but we do know, she got medical attention for a supposedly injured ankle. And her bar code was recorded as a finisher. So she knew how to game the system to get you finished. And you must have been in this tear, you can now go to Boston, that was the qualification she needed to race compete cheat in the Boston Marathon the following year. So yeah, some of it's a little bit of facts here, a little bit hazy there. Because there's really no foot you couldn't go back and see the footage of rulez. It's like going back and look at the JFK shooting. There's only like that one little snippet because it wasn't it was a different time. So some of its hazy, but that's what we do know she did it with an agenda to get to Boston.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:29:07

And it was cheating to then cheat again, to cheat again.

Jason Connell: 4:29:11

Now in Boston. Yeah, you bring up some good points. It doesn't say was it the subway again, I do know where she joined. And I'll save that for the end where she joined in to the race itself. That's that's been identified. But how she got this out? Yeah, she could have taken somebody's gonna walk there. She could have left her hotel and said, I'm in right here. We don't know. But we know she didn't run the whole thing. No,

Sal Rodriguez: 4:29:33

wait, do they know if she even started?

Jason Connell: 4:29:35

I doubt it. And I don't know if they know. And I would doubt that she did. But that's a chance to what's the benefit of starting? There's nothing there to show that you started. Right. So

Sal Rodriguez: 4:29:45

so let's say you were going to do this today. Yeah, today, tell me today's climate. How's it here's, it's been a few years to me. But I say today, I mean, the last 20 years, you have the chip on your shoelace. When you crossed that little, it tells you you started. And then it's gonna beep again about the 5k mark, it's gonna beep again about the 20 mark. So you would literally have to yourself go to those are handed off to somebody or handed off to somebody else. And they just, you know, scan it with their hat or something. It would have to be a little more elaborate. Yeah, calculated, you'd have to go here, you'd have to go here. You'd have to go here. And then you'd have to go there that have to be at least five different spots where your championship is registered. Yeah, getting an end and in the middle.

Jason Connell: 4:30:22

Very different. You would think there's a check in so yeah, maybe she started bowed out. And she's got to keep an eye on the race when the join you know, where's the leaders where she's got to be knowing that's going on, got to know where they're going to be if she won't, if that's her goal is to win. However, I read and also saw on a video, she wasn't even trying to win, she was trying to have a good finish. It's this was what a friend of hers had said years later, that when she was surprising to her that she was the first female.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:30:52

She wasn't trying to win. She was just trying to but that's so she can tell her family and friends. Look what I did, or be

Jason Connell: 4:30:58

in the top three, and then she wind up being the first woman was like, maybe it was overwhelming, then you're gonna get all the extra press. So and if you go back and watch that interview or any interview with her, it's like, yeah, you can tell the interviewers like, what's going on here?

Sal Rodriguez: 4:31:12

Hang on, Jason. So you're saying that okay, cheating was intentional, but winning wasn't maybe intense, but

Jason Connell: 4:31:17

we only know that through someone close to her. That's hearsay. We don't know. I think she's gonna cheat. She's gonna go for the brass ring.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:31:25

Right? Otherwise, it'd be the point. Yeah, yeah.

Jason Connell: 4:31:27

So even though Ruth has enjoyed her eight glorious days as champion, many folks were skeptical from the start, including interviewer who you saw Catherine Switzer. So that interview was hilarious to see Rue as struggle with running terms such as intervals. She had never even heard of these concepts. And beyond that her fresh appearance and sweat free T shirt did not match someone who had just completed a marathon. I mean, so you've done four full marathons for half marathons. I'm assuming you didn't look very clean and presented after running 13 or 26 miles, you probably look like you just ran all day long.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:32:09

And my first marathon, that was the 9099 LA Marathon. At the end, I was just, I mean, I felt like shit. I felt like shit at the end. At the very end, I had a friend who was a massage therapist, massage and runners. And as soon as I crossed the finish line, I saw my friend Lucy she was a massage therapist walking towards me I swear to God, she looked like an angel. She's like an angel to me coming to me grab me me giving me a cut in the line. Yeah, putting me on the table. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah. And but that's, you know, running for almost four hours running for almost four hours is going to have a bigger toll even then probably running two hours. I always say that the people that run about a four hour marathon you still finish at the top 10% category if you run for Hours are under. That's the way it used to be anyway, I would always say that you kind of get more beaten up if you're running for hours. And if you're running only two, I always say the people that are only only run to the elite runners, they got a little bit easier. They only got to run for two hours.

Jason Connell: 4:32:58

Yeah, but they're going fast. They are going very, yeah. I liked that. I liked that Lucy was there for you. So I'm backed up for the next hour, have a seat, have some water. I've got all these massages to do. But she puts you right in front of the front of the line. Good on her. Well, as for the true woman's champion, Jacqueline guru, she was actually brought back from Canada to reenact a true victory ceremony alongside men's winter Bill Rogers. So that's a really nice, you know the name. Yeah, yeah, he

Sal Rodriguez: 4:33:27

was a big marathon runner. Yeah.

Jason Connell: 4:33:29

And that's a nice touch that the Boston Marathon probably thought, well, this is a black guy on them, right? Like, oh, my gosh, how did this happen? We have to change things in 81. And let's get additional security. Now. We got to get smartphones by 81. I'd love to see photos of Rogers and rulez. I would just love to see these side by side. Yes. But as you can imagine, the story gained huge media attention and Rue as acquired public notoriety, and lasting name recognition. Doing a Rosie is still runner slang for cheating by cutting the course, which still occurs to this day. So I read now according to you, and your methodology and your insight, maybe you couldn't pull it off. But maybe people try to still game the system, hand things off, or who knows, right? We don't know.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:34:22

Well, I will share this. The only thing I ever did, in the ballpark of this. Oh was about 2007 My oldest brother calls me says hey, I want to run the LA Marathon but I only want to run half of it. He says to me, I go okay, I'll do it with you. So you got to do your half. Well, okay, so he and I don't know how we I guess we drove caught the bus got dropped off. That's what he and I get dropped off. At the halfway point of the LA Marathon. 2007 Jump into the event. By the way, I paid to be clear. I paid for my bib. Yeah, my brother. I don't know. But anyway, so we jump in halfway point, we run to the end. So you can jump into an event. I've done it. Okay. Yeah, you can. Especially if you have a beard. I mean, that's all they're looking for really is you look official, you know, so yeah, I have a real beard. My brother might have had a photocopy. Allegedly. That's a crime. But so yeah, so I've done something. I have jumped into a marathon, but it was sort of semi

Jason Connell: 4:35:18

How'd They Do your time that marathon? You did your own time?

Sal Rodriguez: 4:35:21

I think I just calculated my own. Because I know I jumped in at this time I finished at this time. Okay. Yeah, I calculate but it was like, Oh, just to be clear in defense of my brother, though. So when I crossed the marathon finish line, they give you the ceremonial medal. Yeah, my oldest brother though. Do it all in spite of it all. He refused it. Okay, he refused the medal. I said, Hey, I paid for this thing. I'm getting the medal. So I did take the medal given that did not pay and he did run but he did not take the medal. Okay, well, I will vote for him on that.

Jason Connell: 4:35:48

So you guys kind of did a rosy t shirt. Yeah, it's awesome. Have you heard of the term though? Do your runner circles, okay.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:36:01

How many guys got? I got a good friend at the park who runs the bike rentals and he's a marathon runner. He's gonna throw it at him. You know what? I think he just did Boston. He did the recent Boston Oh, that was? Yeah, my friend Avi at Griffith Park that I see all the time. I think he ran Boston recently. He's gonna be doing Chicago soon.

Jason Connell: 4:36:18

That's awesome. Well also on Rosie's legacy front T shirts in blazed with a subway token and Rosie rulez Track Club are quite popular for some time. So I'd love one of those shirts, you should wear one of those you can give it to your friend or

Sal Rodriguez: 4:36:34

you know what I want Jason, the Rosie rulez action figure.

Jason Connell: 4:36:38

There you go. Complete with subway token. And then this is awesome. Last on her legacy. On Boston Marathon day. There is a bar on Kenmore Square now not too far. I know the area to one mile from the finish line that displays the sign cell,

Sal Rodriguez: 4:36:59

which reads Rosie rulez started here.

Jason Connell: 4:37:04

That's fine. Like, you know, right there. So that's where she jumped in.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:37:08

You can go see this yourself. I'm

Jason Connell: 4:37:10

going to I wanted to record this episode there. But you know, traffic would have been loud. So I'm gonna go down there and get a photo of that area. Well, I'd have to go there around the marathon time to get a sign. But I'm gonna go back. I've been around these squares, but I didn't know this at the time. So that's really funny. I love that marking. So she jumped in about a mile from the finish line and probably ran that mile as hard as she could.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:37:34

So I think based on all the information and evidence, we don't have any reason to believe she ever even started she just jumped in. So we just don't know. Yeah, right. We don't know. We do know.

Jason Connell: 4:37:45

Salvador Rodriguez. As an brother, but hey,

Sal Rodriguez: 4:37:48

my brother and I ran 13.1. And you paid, and

Jason Connell: 4:37:53

she must have paid that because she needed some sort of

Sal Rodriguez: 4:37:55

like showed her. You need to be registered and registered. Yeah, sure.

Jason Connell: 4:37:59

So Sal will have a lot of fun with this one. It's a bit lighter. And before we went on, we even discussed the concept of is this really a crime? Well, it's a crime. You're cheating. You're doing something. It's a fraud. It's a hoax. It's not punishable at least not 1980 by prosecution, jail time. I think it would be different now. gaming the system sponsorships at play. It's just a whole other thing now. Yeah, I

Sal Rodriguez: 4:38:25

mean, if there were no legal ramifications, then there could be legal ramifications today. Maybe

Jason Connell: 4:38:29

right. Yeah. And I still thought it was interesting enough to explore but this sound my friend, this is where the story takes a sadder turn. Okay? Despite all the hard evidence, Rosie Rue has persisted in claiming that she had run the whole distance and refused to return the winner's medal. That's not the sadder term, but it kind of shows you insight on the person. And that's just kind of crazy.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:38:54

So hang on, Jason Lee, this is where there could be a crime because they exactly. You stole that metal at this. Right. There's definitely a crime.

Jason Connell: 4:39:00

I think the Boston Marathon probably is like they want to clean this matter up and just move on down the road and not let it happen. Rather than just point the finger at her it was an embarrassment on them like,

Sal Rodriguez: 4:39:12

yeah, how can we let this happen? How did this happen? Sure.

Jason Connell: 4:39:14

huge embarrassment on them. And this is a prestigious event, no one around the world. So

Sal Rodriguez: 4:39:19

I think Boston Marathon is probably the most famous. I don't think it's the biggest as far as a tenant's because again, you got to qualify. But I think it's the probably most famous marathon, I would say so. Yeah. So

Jason Connell: 4:39:31

as far as the downfall of res a few years after the race, she was charged with writing bad checks. And in the next two years, she was sentenced to probation for grand larceny, forgery, and cocaine dealing. Wow. Well, here's your that's a crime.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:39:48

She's got quite a track record. Hello.

Jason Connell: 4:39:53

I read that I thought I you know what, this is a lot you're carrying, you're blasted in the media, you do it for this. whatever's inside you, I don't know what's inside her needing to stand out. And then it's going the opposite way. Once they figured out the fraud the hoax, I'm sure it was a very dark time to transition away from this from 1980. I did read that her conduct may have been attributed to her suffering brain damage during surgery to remove tumors in 1973 and 1978. However, I have no other information on that at this time.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:40:27

So you know what, Jason, when I saw that interview, I'm big on like, trying to read people, you look at the mannerisms, you look at the eye movement and all that. I love body language. And watching the interview. First of all, the reporter was awesome. Because the reporter what I'm gathering watching is like she did not believe her. And yet she stayed professional. Yeah. And she kind of made it look like she was just a standard interview. But you could tell that interviewer did not buy it. She didn't

Jason Connell: 4:40:51

she was a runner. She obviously she's an experienced person herself. Catherine Switzer. Yeah, I encourage anyone to just Google Rosie Rue as Catherine Switzer interview, you'll see what we're talking about. But when

Sal Rodriguez: 4:41:01

I'm looking at Rosie being interviewed, I just thought something's off about her. Like, she was kind of yeah, she's like lost in the woods. Yeah, maybe there was something maybe there was a brain thing. Now hang on. I'm not one of these people necessarily, who believes that if you have a brain injury, that means you're going to go to the realm of the criminal, you know, normal. You know what I mean back in, you know, young Frank, Kern Frankenstein, but there's definitely something off about her in that interview. I'll say that to my dying day.

Jason Connell: 4:41:25

I totally agree. So I don't know about that unconfirmed, but it could have played a role it could have been attributed. But I do know that ruedas withdrew from public attention, worked in real estate and as a public notary lived in a stable domestic relationship, and helped raise her partner's three children until her death on July 8 2019, in Lake Worth Beach, Florida. And she was 66 years old. And at the time of death, known as Rosie am vivus. So probably moved away from her name, could have had a marriage and divorce and then had this new relationship, but just kind of put it behind her and moved on to the best of her ability.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:42:13

But you know what I would say, though, after reading all of this, hearing all this learning about all this, might want to have a look at some of those real estate contracts, you know, check her check some of those notary documents so you got to this the way who signed my notary this. Rosie Ruiz She sounds familiar. Yeah, I think Jason What I'm still here we are now almost at the end. Yeah. Was she a runner? Was she even a runner?

Jason Connell: 4:42:38

So when she's interviewed in that famous interview, New York was her first Boston was her second marathon now running outside of that she was saying that she was on I'm familiar with the terms. She runs for herself. And she had a knee injury. I doubt so she was a runner. She got in there runs enough enough that you could finish a mile. Me after a mile if I'm running really fast when I was doing like, fives and even six minute mile. Yeah, you're tired. You're winded. But you saw the video her coming in. They had to hold her up as if she had been 26. And she had no, you know, water in her she was dehydrated. So acting, not a runner, maybe a really good actor. But I don't know what drove her to do it. But these type of tales live on forever. She's infamous in the marathon world. And she wasn't the first but it was maybe one of the biggest frauds there are in marathons. Yeah,

Sal Rodriguez: 4:43:32

a great story. You can kind of laugh about it. Now you could chuckle about Yes. And I think it would be hard to get away with this now. So yeah, she goes down in history. She's a historical figure in running because I only knew about the New York City subway marathon. I never knew about them. I didn't know about that. Yeah, that is crazy. Well, you know what she's passed on now. Rest and rest and Rosie's rest. And absolutely.

Jason Connell: 4:43:53

So that covers Rosie rulez Boston Marathon shooter in 1980. Sal, if there's anything else to add, before we wrap up and do our outro

Sal Rodriguez: 4:44:03

The good news is this actually does inspire me to do a little more running. I'm only doing like, Hey, I'm doing like a six mile walk run today. Six Mile Walk Run. That's good. But so I may do like a 5k a 10k. And once I do I kind of reevaluate, I do a 5k reevaluate, do a 10k reevaluate. Once I get to 10k I may consider a half so this is helping to inspire me. So Rosie even in death, is able to touch the lives of other runners.

Jason Connell: 4:44:28

Still doing a Rosie, I like it. So unlock your confidence and always use the right tools for the job with manscaped

Sal Rodriguez: 4:44:35

and get 20% off and free shipping with the code. That's a crime@manscape.com

Jason Connell: 4:44:40

So thank you so much for listening. And please be sure to subscribe to the that's a crime podcast as well as the that's a crime YouTube Live Channel. You can also really help us by giving the show a five star rating on Apple podcast.

Sal Rodriguez: 4:44:52

And for all your listeners that enjoy sharing your thoughts. You can leave us a review on Apple podcasts, send us a direct message or post a comment on any that's a crime social media platform.

Jason Connell: 4:45:01

We also highly recommend checking out our other podcast and visiting just curious media.com